SILVERBACK (Jon & Matt Phillips) INTERVIEW
Not everyone can say they created a whole music scene. Brothers Jon and Matt Phillips sure can though. For close to 20 years the brothers have been at the forefront of bringing a 'California scene' to the masses. Rewind to the early 90s and a band called Sublime.
Mixing a hybrid of reggae, blues, hip hop and punk rock, Sublime's sound was one of the most unique, confusing and ultimately beautiful which was created in the last two decades. Jon Phillips recognized this talent and had faith that the world would confront the musical challenge of Sublime and embrace it. We all know the result - tragedy and world-wide phenomenon.
While Sublime's career was cut short, through Silverback Management, Jon and Matt Phillips continue to lead and promote one of the strongest independent scenes in the USA today. The growing company is responsible for managing acts like Slightly Stoopid, Pepper, The Expendables, The Beautiful Girls and music legends Fishbone. The Phillips brothers were there from the beginning and have plenty to share.
The Pier: So tell us briefly about the formation of Silverback Management?
Matt Phillips: We started the company back in 1998. At the time I was living in San Diego managing Slightly Stoopid and Jon was living in LA managing the Long Beach Dub Allstars (LBDA). From there we decided to from a company and do things together. It has worked out kind of nice since we have come from different backgrounds in how we got into the music business. I got in through Stoopid and doing the role of the booking agent, the marketing person and being the record label. While Jon, in LA, got a job at a record label and being an A&R person. He has more major label experience, while mine is more on the independent. It's a good balance.
The Pier: Very cool. So what’s it like working with your brother?
Matt Phillips: It’s like working with anybody else or being involved in any other type of relationship, everything is out on the table. We grew up together arguing and fighting. All and all I would rather be working with my brother than anybody else. Who could you trust more than your brother?
It’s funny though; the people that know us think we so opposite and think we aren’t brothers. Which is also kind of nice. But we are best friends and it makes sense that we go to an office and see each other every day.
The Pier: How has Silverback grown since it started?
Matt Phillips: The biggest things that has happened growth wise for us would be going from having two to three bands on the roster to a quite a few more, as we recently picked up The Beautiful Girls, The Expendables and Fishbone along away. The other biggest growth is we started a record label, Controlled Substance Sound Labs, and signed a distribution deal last year. That has always been a goal for us.
The record business is evil. The bands and us were always getting dicked around by the major labels. So we wanted to set up a platform where we could do what we wanted to do and bands could own their masters, and it’s the new way of doing things and controlling your own destiny. For me Controlled Substance is going to be one of the biggest and best independent labels this decade. We are going to be partners with the artists. Slightly Stoopid once was going to sign this deal with a big time record label and they got told how to write their music. That was it for them they were out. They write music for themselves and their fans.
Major labels these days are struggling, there is only five or so left and there is a reason for that. Today there is so many ways to discover music, MySpace, YouTube and Facebook, fans are not going to just buy what they hear on the radio. They can seek out what they like, so you can’t put bullshit out. Only the cream of the crop is going to rise.
The Pier: Silverback/Controlled Substance artists certainly have their own style. How would you describe this music to the unitiated?
Matt Phillips: The way I like to is describe it, is as "California Soul." It is just music that people want to listen to and have a good time. It grabs from so many different genres so you can’t place a single genre on it. California Soul – it is fun time music. These bands aren’t emo and singing about slitting their wrists. They create music where you can throw it on for people to vibe out too.
The Pier: Jon as you were once Sublime's manager, does it amaze you still how much of an impact Sublime has had on the music world and on all these bands coming up today; by creating this "California Sound"?
Jon Phillips: I never doubted it with Sublime, even when I first heard the band and was intent on signing them. I always thought after Nirvana they were going to be the next biggest thing. If you were close to it at the time and were there when Sublime was playing shows and they weren’t too fucked up to play a good show they were one of the best musical entity’s out there.
I always thought the impact could be as widespread as it is now, but the fact that it did happen is kind of mesmerizing. I was concerned it was going to be more of an obscure success like the precursor to Pearl Jam was Mother Love Bone and how their singer died and no one really knows him that well. I hoped Sublime never ended up in that scenario because their music was just so good and deserves to be heard by everybody.
It’s hard to believe one band could start a whole genre and even today it is still picking up with all these new bands and some bands that have been around for a while are still playing and getting more popular. It is kind of crazy. I think the genre puts out a lot of memorable songs and people want to be a part of something they can touch and these bands don’t have an image. These are people you want to have as part of your family and the movement has grown because people recognize that. This music is never going to lose its appeal because of that and it is going to create newer stars over time.
The Pier: Jon, you also managed LBDA when they were around. Were you disappointed when the band broke up? They were kind of carrying the torch for Sublime there for a while.
Jon Phillips: I thought the LBDA had a tremendous opportunity and they also possessed a lot of talent. They were uncomfortable with their role at first and I think it was hard for them because they didn’t have the same struggle as Slightly Stoopid or Sublime had.
I think unfortunately it was an instant party for them from the get-go and there was a lot of people surrounding them and hanging on to them at that point. I think they were a group of guys that were somewhat unprepared for the success. If they could have had time to refine their talent it would have been better.
The last record they did, Wonders of the World, it came on Sept 11 in 2001. What a bad day to release a record and while at the time a lot of people shut down, a testament to LBDA on Sept 12 they took off in tour two buses to tour the country to bring the music and the positive message in the wake of doom.
I wish those guys were still around, Opie (Ortiz) was developing a good craft as a singer, as there was time when he was first starting out he was too afraid to even look out to the audience. You know things happen for a reason and on a certain level the LBDA was not meant to be.
The Pier: So Matt, while Jon was managing the LBDA you were looking after Slightly Stoopid. Do you remember the experience of first hearing the band and what was your initial thoughts?
Matt Phillips: First time I saw Slightly Stoopid was at this joint benefit concert Sublime did at the House of Blues on Sunset. It was 1996 and they were still in high school. I saw them and they were more of a punk band back then, but for 16 year old kids I never had seen a band jam like that before. They were so small and skinny and so good. After that night they became one of my favorite bands. When the self-titled album came out I was burning it for everyone I knew. It was my favorite CD.
I starting helping and I always helped Jon out with Sublime, so it was natural for me to try and get the word out for them. The first real time it made me realize I was going to work with them is when they had a CD release party (Longest Barrel Ride) and they showed up with no CDs. Miles (Doughty) told me that night that they really needed my help.
The Pier: It must be satisfying to see how popular Slightly Stoopid has become and how it has developed that huge following it has today?
Matt Phillips: I kind of knew they were always going to be this popular and that’s due to my ignorance rather than arrogance, as I thought it was going to be easy. I thought all I had to do was tell people about this great band and it would happen. For me the most satisfying thing is those guys did it on their own terms. They didn’t sign to a major, they didn’t suck some radio programmer’s dick, they didn’t suck anyone’s dick. They just went out there and played some great music. To me Slightly Stoopid is going to be like the Grateful Dead. They have got the best fans in the world and will keep on going.
Jon Phillips: All these bands work really hard especially Slightly Stoopid and Pepper. We are the underdogs and for these bands who were living in the limelight under Sublime, they were pigeon-holed as baby-band Sublime and a lot of people don’t know that Brad from Sublime and Miguel recorded Slightly Stoopid when they were 16 year-old kids. Brad came to me after I signed Sublime and said he had his own label (Skunk) and that he was going to invest in his own bands and Slightly Stoopid was the group that he turned us onto.
When Sublime came up to LA to buy their first touring van, Brad didn’t have any wheels and couldn’t drive so he came up to my office and he was driven up there in a pick-up truck by none other than Miles Doughty from Slightly Stoopid. That is the day when I first met Miles and we went and looked at the van Sublime was going to do its future touring in.
Brad was interested in producing Slightly Stoopid and putting out their records, unfortunately for them Brad’s existence was short-lived and when he passed, it hurt Stoopid as they were the band that was going to be going on tour with Sublime and would have been the young guys Sublime would have endorsed and brought to their audience. Slightly Stoopid ended up having to do it the hard way and live in that shadow. In the course of a decade of sleeping on the floors of vans and eating AMP hot dogs they created their own sound and carry the torch for California music that stems from the fusion of reggae and blues. They don’t have an image to uphold, these are bands for the people to come join the party.
The success of Sublime was always bittersweet because we never really got to enjoy it and Sublime never got to be a really successful touring band after selling millions of records as there was no Sublime. With Slightly Stoopid they are going to go out and do their second run of amphitheatres this summer and are a major touring attraction and have done it all themselves. What we do at Silverback is we have created a family and it is extended now to Pepper and others.
The Pier: As you say, Slightly Stoopid has without question achieved what they have today by themselves and they have never really had huge mainstream media support either. Why do you think the media has been shy in supporting Stoopid and this genre?
Jon Phillips: It has been organic the way these bands have hit the mainstream and was never forced. Slightly Stoopid also has a reputation that sort of proceeds itself of a little of a bad boy image and not to really run through the hoops of the industry and I think people can be a little bit scared of them. People also have a hard time categorizing them. To me Slightly Stoopid exists outside the music business, they are in the business of making music. They want to do things on their own terms and that is why it hasn’t happened for them with the mainstream media.
Even if you look at Sublime, I mean as popular as they have become and have this mythical status, has the press ever really endorsed the band and written about them and reflected the genius that Brad Nowell and the band were? No not really. They get dismissed as party band, which they were, but there was also a genius to it.
What’s funny with Stoopid is I also think its name has had played a big part in them not having mainstream success. For example the one time Spin Magazine said anything about Slightly Stoopid was “one of the top ten bands least likely to success because of their name”. I hate Spin Magazine and you can print that!
Another example is when we released Closer to the Sun in 2005 we aligned with a distribution/label hybrid called Reincarnate and it was owned partially by Dave Matthews management. So at the time Slightly Stoopid got invited to do some Dave Matthews tour dates and so Dave Matthews manager is on the phone with me and is saying he wants to help try and break the band and he says to me, 8-10 years into the Slightly Stoopid’s career and a band that have sold over 100,000 albums, “can’t you guys change the band’s name?" I think about that and have always felt the music defines the name. If there is real talent there your band’s name doesn’t matter.
The Pier: What is it your saw in these bands, currently on your roster, that made you want to work with them:
Pepper
Matt Phillips: Pepper had been on our radar for a really long time. We had been keeping our eye on them for a while and then we went out to Hawaii to this festival that had Damian Marley, Slightly Stoopid, Pennywise, LB Shortbus and Pepper was opening it. That was when it kind of clicked seeing them on stage doing their routine. Hearing Kona Town and sitting there listening to it you could tell these guys really had something going on.
You watch them now from five years ago. They have got so good instrumentation wise and those guys could be comedians too as they are hilarious.
The Expendables
Matt Phillips: Again we watched them for a long time and I saw them for six years before we did sign them. Slightly Stoopid kind of took them in under their wing and brought them on tour nationally. Raul (Bianchi) is not only one of the greatest guitar players in this scene but one of the greats in music right now. Just that whole band is so tight.
Seeing where they have come in five years, the fact Slightly Stoopid wanted to sign them to Stoopid Records, combined with this one show that pushed it over the edge for me personally. It was seeing them open for Stoopid in Florida and seeing how the crowd reacted to them was amazing. They could eventually be the biggest band in this scene.
The other thing is, Jon and I don’t want to have two of the same bands. That is not one of our goals. The Expendables are really different, they bring this 80s metal arena rock thing with dueling guitars and are just so good. As they developed into that, it clicked for us that they are their own thing.
Fishbone
Matt Phillips: I grew up on Fishbone. Jon actually gave me their tape when I was 12 and I never really listened to it, but I was a huge Beastie Boy fan and saw them when they were opening for them on tour. Fishbone took Slightly Stoopid on tour in 1999 and just to see them years later still rocking on. Norwood (Fisher) the bass player reached out to us for help and for us it was like well Fishbone is one of the most influential bands in California music, inspiring the Red Hot Chili Peppers, Sublime and No Doubt and so on. We are honored to work with them.
The Beautiful Girls
Matt Phillips: It was 2005 and we were getting so many demos sent tour office and I couldn’t listen to everything and MySpace wasn’t any everyday thing. I kept hearing about them through the grapevine cause they did a cover version of Slightly Stoopid’s Mellow Mood into a Sublime song. I always check the chat boards to see what the fans were saying and the fans were really talking about that cover.
I had given a friend this huge stack of CDs to listen cause she has a good ear for music and we were taking a long drive out to Malibu and she put in this CD. It was Learn yourself and I was like, ‘holy shit who is this?’ To me, Matt McHugh is one of the best songwriters around. That what got me, his songs.
The Pier: Are you actively looking to sign other artists? Is that an ongoing thing for Silverback?
Matt Phillips: That is an ongoing thing for us because our ideology behind the company is not to catch the flavor of the month and to capitalize on a band writing that one hit. We want to see what happens with a band because we put our lives into these acts and they are like our extended family. We want to see bands have some success on their own and I really like to hear two or three albums from a band and see they can do things and not self-destruct. We are always there to give advice, but we not going to sign someone right away. All our most recent signings took place over time.
The Pier: So what advice would you give to bands right now then?
Matt Phillips: Right now is the best time to be a band creating your own music because you have so many outlets to get your music out there to people. You don’t really need anybody’s help to get to a certain level of success.
When we started you had to print out and hand out flyers, for your music you had to get on the radio of giveaway CDs. The big thing we did was surf videos. These days there is MySpace, Facebook and numerous more ways of getting your music out there. You just have to be creative. The best bands are going to rise to the top, so if you are a good band and write good music there is no excuses.
Don’t rely on a manager picking you up, don’t rely on the radio playing your song or getting signed. You don’t need that anymore. You can attain success on your own. If you write good music people will start listening.
The Pier: That's good advice. So what has Silverback and Controlled Substance got coming up for 2008?
Matt Phillips: This is going to be a big year for us. Slightly Stoopid is in Miami right now recording. They put out an EP a few years ago, Slightly Not Stoned Enough To Eat Breakfast Yet Stoopid. We only printed 5,000 copies and most were given out with the Closer to the Sun preorder. So they have outtakes from CTTS and Chronchitis and are writing new stuff and are going to make that a full-length album this summer.
There will be at least 10 more songs in addition to those original seven. They are self producing it and are recording at Circle House Studio owned by reggae legends Inner Circle.
Jon Phillips: For me some of the songs on the EP were better than some of the songs that made the record. They just had so much stuff. I was telling them that they should come out with two records. One that was like a core style and one that was more country-fied and acoustic sounding.
This studio they are working at is well known in hip hop circles and it even has a parking space for Timbaland. They told me it has been just great vibes. Miles and Kyle have also been collaborating together in the studio which they haven’t done for the last couple of records. This album has the real potential to be a real fan favorite.
Matt Phillips: Pepper is recording in February at Total Access with Paul Leary, that is going to be their big studio album and the band’s first release on Controlled Substance. It’s really exciting that our two biggest bands are releasing records in the same year. Then to top it off, both bands going on tour together this summer in amphitheatres much like Summer Haze last year. It is going to be the party of the summer.
Jon Phillips: I suggested last record that they work with Paul and not to emulate anything that Sublime did, Paul is not trying to apply any gimmicks or sounds to what these bands do. He just tries to capture the best possible organic sound he can get from these groups. The last Pepper record with all the different producers was more of an experiment. This one they are going to do all with Paul Leary and I think their wackiness will go real good together across a whole album. I think it will be a really cohesive record for them and they have matured so much as band in the last year and a half they will easily go in there and make their best statement to date.
One song I have heard the band play live the last few times I have seen them recently is probably one of my favorite Pepper songs to date. It is one of Kaleo’s songs and it has a bluesy Motown sound to it. It is called Things That You Love.
Matt Phillips: We are also talking about doing a "Silverback Allstar" record where we get all these bands collaborating together and bringing in some of the outside family like G Love and Ozomatli. This album probably won’t be done this year but is something we want to do.
The Pier: I wasn’t game enough to ask Miles when I interviewed him, because he gets asked about it all the time, but what is happening with Acoustic Roots 2? It's a common question asked by readers at the Pier.
Matt Phillips: Ahh haha, yeah it is in the works and it will happen and they have been talking about it for a long time. It’s hard because that first one was not a planned CD. A radio station wanted them to come in and play live because they had been getting a lot of requests. I just remember Miles and Kyle playing together on the patio in their house it was some of the most beautiful music I had ever heard. That was just a one take thing we ended up doing for the radio, who didn’t even know we were just going to do it acoustically. When I heard it we flipped out, so we decided to release it.
With Acoustic Roots 2 it just has to happen in a creative way and where it just happens, instead of just deciding to record an acoustic record cause that would be cheating the fans more than anything.
The Pier: Nice. In terms of shows, is there ever going to be another Silverback Fest or even tour planned?
Matt Phillips: That’s another thing we have in the works, it would have to be after the summer. We have been meeting with promoters and are trying to pick the right location. We would like to make it an annual thing and do it in different parts of not just the US but the world. For the next one we want to get all the Silverback artists and a few other bands to be a part of it.
Well that's about it folks, there is certainly some exciting Silverback/Controlled Substance projects coming up just around the corner. The Pier would like to thank Jon & Matt for their time and sharing all the inside dirt on past experiences and exciting prospects for the future. We are happy to acknowledge if it wasn't for them, there probably would not be a Pier web-site.
Also a shout to IrieAZ Photo for some killer live shots used in this feature.
To find out more about Silverback and Controlled Substance Sound Labs check out:
