Organizing Shows and What to Ask For

17 October 07

Welcome to The Pier's 'Ask Weege' column. Every week the 880 South's front man and music scene veteran will be answering questions and providing tips for up-and-coming bands and musicians.

Gavin asks, 'Big fan of the column dude. In previous columns you have briefly talked about organizing a contract with venues you are playing at. Can you talk more about what you should include as a minimum in them? Thanks bro.'

Weege: Gavin, glad you tune in weekly. Hope I can help you with this question, but really there are a lot of questions you have to ask yourself. So I'll try not to beat around the bush. Minimum guarantees can be a lot of things. You can basically round off numbers based off some of these questions you should ask yourself.

How many people does the venue you're playing hold? Meaning...how much can you and the venue potentially make from door sales? If you get a minimum guarantee. Usually that's just guaranteed money. However there have been shows for 880 South where we can potentially make more from a door percentage.

Most venues need a "minimum costs" to cover security, sound guy, and any other necessities. Ask this up front. What does your club need? Let's not forget they make a great deal of money off of bar sales. That is if, it's a 21 and up crowd. I'll talk about this more in a sec.

One more question to add to this first question. How much is the venue charging at the door? You gotta know this so you can make your estimates. If you think you can bring in 100 people. The club is charging $8 to get in. You're talking $800. If you can bring 250 people. You're talking $2000. But don't forget you still have to think about costs of running the venue and other factors. Continue on and I will explain more.

What kind of walk-in traffic do they have? Meaning...will this venue already have a locals draw? Is the venue located on a main strip where lots of people converge? Or is it located in some remote commercial district? You have to wonder because you have to consider how much time and money will be spent on promotion and flyers. It's harder to convince people to come to remote locations, the chances of a sell-out show are much slimmer in this case.

What day of the week you're booking a show? I mean it all depends. If you're booking a show on a Saturday or Friday night, the chances of a sellout or a 150-300 person crowd is much better. If you're playing on a Wed night, then it's less likely that'll happen. You'll probably get maybe 40% of your regular crowd. Sucks huh? The only way that is null is if you are opening or supporting for a major national headliner. Even then, you will be lucky to get $400-$500.

Who is your crowd; 'all ages' or '21 & up?' This is a huge factor. Clubs can't make money off of non-drinking teenagers. So they start dipping into your door sales & merch sales. It's only natural they do so. We've played some exclusive clubs and they took 10% of our merch sales. We were main support for the Expendables up in Slim's and the show was worth it based on exposure alone. We got paid less than we normally would make in San Francisco, but every show has it's perk. This perk was basically bringing our 100 or so people and throwing them in with The Expendables 300+ people. It was a good blend, we sold a lot of merch and had a kickass show.

So I'm saying if it doesn't have a perk, then you shouldn't be playing it unless you don't mind getting paid less and playing in front of nobody. Some bands don't mind. They just wanna play. I got no problem with that. I love all the artists motivations. Some folks just wanna play. If you're down with the coffee-shop open-mic night philosophy. More power to you. I personally like earning what we deserve and having fun at the same time.

So lots of questions. And you might think. How does that help me? You just confused the crap out of me. I ask these questions because a lot of venues will ask or reference these factors.

How do you factor your minimum in your contract? The bottomline is, you have to come with a realistic number based on "when, where, what, and who." As in...who's coming? Other things you should demand in your rider/contract are for the club to require drink tickets (you negotiate a fair number) & possibly food compensation. Sometimes they'll order a pizza for ya, or they'll have a restaurant of their own.

Don't forget guest list. If you have 20 people on your g-list. That's 20 people not paying. As much as you wanna help your friends out, the club frowns upon this unless you are pulling 400+ people ya know? There are ways to get your minimum and get a percentage of bar sales, but you need to have some reputation with the venue already. Maybe played there a few times. Prove to them you have a draw and a good drinking crowd.

You know how I landed 880 South's first show and got us a guarantee? I had the booking guy from an old club that we used to play write down a testimonial about our drinking crowd and our live performance. The same weekend I had the bartender who now works at the Blank Club vouch for us too. The club booked us within a day of contacting them. You'll be surprised at how well downtown scenes and live music venues are connected. Your reputation and your professionalism can go a long way.

I know a lot of my answers aren't as fulfilling and straight-forward as people would like them. The reason I answer questions with questions is simple. Everyone has to have their own goals and has to understand their own limitations. If the world were perfect we could all play when we wanted, with whoever we wanted, and get paid lots of money for it. The reality is...that ain’t happening. You have to be creative to survive in the music business. Look outside the box, and think of new ways to promote, and more importantly understand that nothing is free. Even if there isn't a monetary value, you always pay for things somehow.

It's also important to understand some bands can go 5-7 years without getting recognition. It's tough and you have to learn that paying your dues is really important. I personally had a lot of trouble with this early on. It was tough to accept that my band wasn't a hit when we first came out in 1998.

I mean it was a hit amongst the 200 friends we'd play in front of, but the rock/rap audience that was circulating in the 90s wasn't fond of it. That was tough to chew for me because I thought we were gonna come out of the gates blazing. But then I saw how important those core 200 something friends were to keeping us alive and just above water. That is how we got steady guarantees, that is how we got put on bills with bigger bands that toured nationally. That is the foundation.

You just have to learn to accept what you're capable of and build from that. My advice, stay in touch with your fans, make them feel like part of the family, because they are the epicenter of everything you do. They are your swagger, they are the people who will have your back through the thick and thin. Just hang in there, try and make good decisions and when you make bad decisions don't let them drag you down. Get up and fight another day. Welcome to the music biz. Things will work out brother.

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